When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. More importantly, this recall is supposed to help extend the life of the cam phasers as demonstrated by their extended warranty coverage for vehicles that received this PCM reprogram prior to February 2022. This can help to eliminate the engine proceed shudder. This campaign is for vehicles that had 21B10 S2 performed and had an engine shudder afterward. I had 21B10 done last week on my '19. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. I appreciate the help. Now they say it needs another round of cam phasers. Received 8 Likes on 6 Posts. Sounds pretty promising Sounds pretty promising This condition is typically caused by the buildup of deposits on the intake valves and combustion chambers. What is my next option? Contact Us - Did the re program- to no avail- the engine light back on. Id look much closer at a CPO truck than the remaining 2nd hand market. If youre experiencing engine shudder in your Ford vehicle, please bring it to your nearest dealership or service center so we can take a look and get it fixed up for you as soon as possible. I asked them to let me know if the Cam Phaser Rattle recall had ever been done to the vehicle and when I picked it up, they told me they did "RECALL 210B10" and the work order stated "210B10D Reprogram PCM to the latest level". This condition is typically caused by the buildup of deposits on the intake valves and combustion chambers. The PCM reprogramming process is often recommended as a solution to the engine shudder 21N08 issue. The dealer will reflash the powertrain control module (PCM) with new software to fix the problem. Im going to try to use it as a point of negotiation. Calling the dealer when I get back and having it looked at thanks for this info. The transmission is responsible for transmitting power from the engine to the wheels. This site allows me to test new tools, piddle around in the garage, and share the insights I get from flipping cars and houses. That said, after some pressuring, I had a Ford technician told me that it would likely cost around $300 to run the reprogramming on your PCM if you were to bring it in outside of warranty. I had the first PCM recall done too, but have an engine shudder issue. This is outlined in the letter Ford sent to us 2018-2020 Expy owners . The PCM reprogramming process involves updating the software that controls the PCM. MORE importantly, do it or not, it says they will only cover repairs until JAN 1, 2023. Because the 21B10 has expired and the 21N03 is about to expire at the time of this writing, we need to explore what your costs would be if you needed to replace the cam phasers out of your own wallet. Hey! LOL, Ford Raptor Exterior Modifications Forum [GEN 1]. 21N08 is for those with engine shudders. and 2018-2020 Navigator Vehicles Equipped with a 3.5L GTDI Engine PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder ;In a very low . It is important to address the engine shudder 21N08 issue to maintain the performance and safety of the vehicle. Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing The goal of a manufacturer customer satisfaction program is to increase customer loyalty and repeat business. The shudder may be felt during light acceleration, at speeds between 30-40 mph, and can last for a couple of seconds. Since we know what these issues are, you are safe to buy one of these Ford models. So far, the results are positive. I've seen some mention of a shifter cable clip that breaks or something. Had my cam phasers done back in July. Advertising - Hey all, I am looking to buy my first full size truck and very interested in a used F-150 3.5L EcoBoost, all because of being good in gas consumption and the amazing towing capability. Certain 2017-2020 Model Year F-150, 2018-2020 Expedition, and 2018-2020 Navigator Vehicles Equipped with a 3.5L GTDI Engine PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder ;In a very low percentage . might be auto on/off that truck comes equipped with, There is a new Recall specifically for this. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. We are talking about millions of trucks and SUVs! However, if the vibrations are severe enough to cause your car to shake or rattle, then its definitely time to take it to a mechanic for further diagnosis. You are using an out of date browser. When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. - Anyone have any information regarding the new recall notice I just received in the Ford App. This can be caused by a variety of factors, including a dirty or faulty mass air flow sensor. The following errors occurred with your submission, Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans. (CSP 21N03 and 21N08) - Hi guys, I am pretty new F150 owner (2019 new to me bought about a month ago) and noticed on my ford pass app that I have two notices in my recalls section: CSP 21N03 CAM PHASERS and 21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER. Reaction score. Location. Just extended the coverage. UPDATE: So I talked to Ford customer service today. Can the engine shudder 21N08 issue be fixed without reprogramming the PCM? Cam phaser rattle back and check engine light on. call your dealer and schedule an appointment. The PCM reprogramming process is often recommended as a solution to the engine shudder 21N08 issue. If your cam phasers are not noisy, don't fix stuff that isn't broken, obviously the earlier PCM upgrade was done that extends your warranty to 70000 miles and prorates beyond that, you don't have the shudder so not needed the 108 flash. Otherwise, further diagnostics will be required to determine cause of shudders. Recall letters were mailed to each affected vehicle owner On September 27, 2021. JavaScript is disabled. The situation is really bad with Ford now. Any shop with an IDS scan tool will be able to check your car for transmission codes. The following errors occurred with your submission, Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans, Aftermarket Products, Reviews & Installation, Suggestions, Comments & Questions about the Forum, Send a private message to VelocityBlue2020, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. Manage Preferences - Diagram. From what the rep told me 21B10 needed to be done before 21N08 even though I have a FSA for 21N08. I have an appointment to drop mine off in October. Advertising - Had my cam phasers done back in July. 21N08 update, So I do not know if should pull the trigger or not. When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. @Lawnpro have you changed your spark plugs yet? Cookie Policy - Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Within a day or less, the cam phaser was rattling again and my engine was shuddering. 21n08 - PCM reprogram due to engine shudder. BUT.I have been reading a lot about the Cam Phasers issue and all of them getting the. Cookie Policy - For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. If your Ford car or truck is experiencing engine shudder, it could be the result of a variety of different issues. The truck. Customer Satisfaction Program 21N08 Certain 2017-2020 Model Year F-150, 2018-2020 Expedition, and 2018-2020 Navigator Vehicles Equipped with a 3.5L GTDI Engine PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder LABOR ALLOWANCES Description Labor Operation Labor Time Test drive to verify engine shudder and reprogram PCM to last revision. and if so an updated calibration will be applied. The affected vehicle exhibits a very noticeable shudder, and can be pretty concerning. The 5.4L Ford engine is a V8 that was used in many different vehicles from . I have used premium fuel and it didnt make any difference. I had 21B03 and knock on wood I haven't had any negative side effects like I have read about This program covers certain repairs that may be needed as a result of a software issue. The three trucks I have looked at have had the 21N08 update, so my question is.If you were in my position, would you pull the trigger on any of those trucks? I will see what I can do to assist with this acceleration concern. Reboot. Reaction score. Ford TSB 21N08 Make: Ford Number: 21N08 Date: 10/29/2021 Title: PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder Summary: In a very low percentage of the affected vehicles, an engine shudder may develop after receiving the PCM update provided in program 21B10. When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. at 2017, 2018 and a 2019. That said, Id still check. By logging into your account, you agree to our. This issue can be uncomfortable and potentially dangerous for the driver and passengers, and it can also lead to reduced performance and fuel efficiency. Generally, the timing chain, chain tensioners and water pump will be replaced at the same time, driving costs up to about $3,000. It was program #21N08 PCM Reprogram due to engine shudder. Please register or login to enable Dark Mode. I have three trucks in mind that I am looking at 2017, 2018 and a 2019. The Program 21N08 PCM Reprogram is designed to address an engine shudder . The vehicle is a CPO but I feel like the selling dealership didn't do a great job looking it over, so I took to a local dealer in AZ (I purchased it in UT). If your vehicle is equipped with the 3.6L engine and has less than 80,000 miles, it may be eligible for a free of charge power control module (PCM) reprogramming. If youve recently had your engine repaired or replaced, the new parts may not be compatible with the old PCM programming. Both will appear on the carfax of every affected VIN, which includes 2017 to early 2020 models. At the time of the PCM reprogramming, it may address the engine shudder 21N08 issue, as this issue is often caused by a problem with the PCM software. Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -. By logging into your account, you agree to our, yes they are only done if the concern is present. Advertising - Check with your dealer to see if your vehicle is eligible and make an appointment for service. 5.7 Hemi Lifter Failure Symptoms Causes & Fixes, Lomax Tonneau Cover problems & troubleshooting, Truxedo Sentry CT Problems & Troubleshooting, UnderCover Armor Flex Problems & Troubleshooting, Retrax Bed Cover Problems & Troubleshooting, Peragon Bed Cover Problems & Troubleshooting. General discussion on the 13th generation Ford F150 truck. Has Ford corrected the Cam Phaser rattle in Gen3? However, the engine shudder is quite noticeable. Took it to dealer said it was cam phaser issue again. Recall 21B10 is a campaign by the United States Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) to recall certain models of childrens bicycles. How will this extend your powertrain warranty 2 years? In rare instances, some vehicles will experience an engine shudder after reprogramming the PCM with the 21B10 update. I an having the same issues with my 2013 f150 ecoboost 116k started about 6 months ago. Check Gauges Light Comes On, And Car Shuts Off, Roach Getting Into Car Meme Explained: Get On This Trend. No matter what the cause of your engine shudder may be, its always best to err on the side of caution and get it checked out by a professional as soon as possible. One of the most common issues that you may face is to program 21n08 PCM to reprogram due to engine shudder. Y'all better read that letter again. As I read it (not saying I'm right), If you DON'T do the updates, I think Ford will not cover it in the future. 10,492. I brought my 2019 F-150 3.5 EB in for the recall. So they basically work 15 hours but get paid only 10 hours. The affected bikes were sold at Walmart stores nationwide from February 2018 through July 2018. Are CSP's only performed as needed? The Program 21N08 PCM Reprogram is designed to address an engine shudder condition on certain vehicles. If your check engine light is on and youre experiencing engine shudder, your car may need a pcm reprogram. Im getting a better understanding on this, now. There are several reasons why the PCM may need to be reprogrammed. The below is copied and pasted from this thread: 21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER update. The good news is that replacing the cam phasers will fix the cold start rattle. 2015 - 2020 Ford F150 - Are CSP's only performed as needed? At the time I scheduled service, I clarified that whether or not my vehicle had experienced a rattle at startup, that a reprogramming would be done. I brought my 2019 F-150 3.5 EB in for the recall. I was looking at another truck earlier and noticed on the Carfax it showed a "Manufacturer Customer Satisfaction Program Issued". This resolves the cam phaser noise on startup issue (you know, the annoying Ford cold start cam phaser rattle). States PCM reprogram due to engine shudder, is this anyway related to 21B03. I have a 2018, just got the same notice. If a car is not regularly maintained, it can lead to problems such as the engine shudder 21N08 issue. I also don't know if the issue with the Cap Phasers will cause other engine problems down the road. Was it stalling or did the auto shutoff just turn it off for a few seconds? Reboot. But unlike my previous trucks, this ones not going to be an overlander or rock crawler that needs to not leave me stranded in the middle of nowhere. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission. Program 21N08 Pcm Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder. This PCM update is program 21B10. First off, be aware that CarFax may show these recalls whether or not they have been done. How can I verify my PCM is extended to 70k? From what I have gathered my dealership performed 21B10 on October 1st (NOT 21N08 which is supposed to be a factory roll back). Engine shudder is a vibration that can be felt in the vehicle's engine, and it is usually caused by an imbalance . The benefits of reprogramming the PCM to address the engine shudder 21N08 issue include: By updating the software that controls the PCM, the PCM can better control the engine and transmission, which can help to eliminate the engine shudder. 2. Ford F-150 Raptor General Discussions [GEN 3], Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods, Ford F-150 Raptor General Discussions [GEN 2], Hmmm? You may then need the cam phasers replaced through the 21N03 customer satisfaction plan. Ford TSB 21N08: Technical Service Bulletin for the 2019 Ford F-150. When the computer is programmed, it will erase this programming andthe vehicle will have to relearn your driving habits. If Ford was serious about this they would offer customers compensation as Volkswagen did. I had the original work done under warranty 54k miles. There are several F150s, Expeditions, and Navigators that needed a PCM reprogram due to an Engine shudder. Issues with IWE potentially caused by PCM Reprogram. Im a little more willing to whip out the AAA card for the extra fun factor and luxury of a Raptor. My truck has 8600 miles on it currently. Join Date: May 2021. It involves surveying customers to identify areas where they are dissatisfied and then taking action to improve those areas. @Stevec1129 I haven't had the chance to try this yet, but I'm really hoping this new recall I see for my truck fixes the issue. This generally only affects a low percentage of vehicles that received . At the worst, if the issue re-appears (low likelihood), you might end up out of pocket for a fairly affordable repair. In addition, the ECM will receive an update that will improve transmission shift quality. Hi guys, I am pretty new F150 owner (2019 new to me bought about a month ago) and noticed on my ford pass app that I have two notices in my recalls section: CSP 21N03 CAM PHASERS and 21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER. Ford 5.4 Engine Life Expectancy . LOL, Ford Raptor Exterior Modifications Forum [GEN 1]. .any advice? develop an undesirable noise. This generally only affects a low percentage of vehicles that received the 21B10 flash. Posts: 20. Only detectable at a crawl speed. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Honestly? Customer Satisfaction Program 21B10 was an extended warranty coverage on engine cam phasers on vehicles that had received a PCM reflash prior to December 31, 2021. I'm assuming this is like a TSB. Thats why were committed to quickly addressing any issues that may arise with our vehicles. I was told by my dealer that any FSA'S that have a "B" in them is a fix they are required to do. They only pay the dealership 75-80% of the labor cost, and guess what, the technicians are the ones who have to cover the difference. The engine shudders 21N08 issue can be caused by a variety of factors, including problems with the PCM software, issues with the transmission, or a lack of proper maintenance. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission. '22 camera issue made worse by dealer and others issues not resolved. The recall does not mean there is anything wrong with the vehicle, its a software update to prevent a phaser rattle noise from developing. Gotcha. I am actually looking to buy my first F150 3.5L EcoBoost, as a used truck, but have seen a lot of posts regarding the. Sounds good to me. . Required fields are marked *. I ended up having it in the shop 4 times between 3 different dealerships and none of them could fix the issue. were completed so that you will be covered by the Ford warranty of 70k miles regarding cam phasers/VCT systems. Transmission & Electrical Issue - Flashing D, N, and Gears, The wheel nuts for the Expedition 2015 are not compatible with the wheel wrench. The reprogram will update the engine control module (ECM) with new calibration files that are optimized for use with low deposit engines. Cam phaser requires extensive effort and should only be attempted by those who are comfortable with working on cars. However, for peace of mind, Ford is providing an extended warranty for customers who receive the PCM update under program 21B10 prior to December 31, 2021 and continue to experience cam phaser noise after receiving that PCM update, A cam phaser that has developed an undesirable noise does not affect the vehicle safety, performance, or emissions. Fords brilliant idea was to revert the programming back to the original level. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. The 21N08 is a pcm reprogram due to engine shudder that reverts the programming back to the original programming prior to the 21B10 reflash. While engine shudder can be alarming, its important to keep in mind that not all instances are created equal. Field Service Action: 21N08 "PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder", Yep -- what ASV said. I'm a long-time Ford and automotive enthusiast, and I've been writing about cars for over 10 years. By updating the software, the PCM can better control the engine and transmission, which can help to eliminate the engine shudder 21N08 issue. What did you do to your truck today? If you are an astute shopper, you might have found these issues before buying a vehicle. JavaScript is disabled. additional VCT or engine timing related components not included in the Parts List. My goal is to empower more people to be self-sufficient. Dealer called and said bill would be $1200. You must log in or register to reply here. Automated page speed optimizations for fast site performance, Benefits of reprogramming the PCM to address the engine shudder 21N08 issue, Improving performance and fuel efficiency. Terms of Service - 5. Thank you for choosing Ford! If your engine does stall unexpectedly, try to pull over to a safe location before attempting to restart it. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. Everything seems relatively fine since, no check engine lights. Is this related to the cam phaser reflash FSA? And if you do need to restart it, make sure youre in neutral or park before doing so. The F150 is the best-selling pickup truck in Americaand has been for 45 years. It may not display this or other websites correctly. The Ford/GM 10R80 is "defective"? 14. 21B10 will be the first thing a Ford dealer would do. Ford is offering a no-cost repair to reprogram the PCM on these vehicles suffering from engine shudder following the previous 21B10 update. Hmm very interesting perhaps I should take it in and see if they will replace mine. . The cause of engine shudder can vary, but its often the result of an imbalance in the engine itself. You are using an out of date browser. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. It was program #21N08 PCM Reprogram due to engine shudder. Oh ok perhaps a good point. While there may be other potential remedies for the engine shudder 21N08 issue, the PCM reprogramming process is often the most effective and efficient solution. Strange first post. Engine. This can be caused by something as simple as a loose spark plug, or something more serious like an issue with the crankshaft or connecting rods. Dealer called and said bill would be $1200. Hello mjpatera! I was looking at another truck earlier and noticed on the Carfax it showed a "Manufacturer Customer Satisfaction Program Issued". Hopefully, I'll be switching over from 11+ years of Land Cruiser and Jeep ownership. (1). (2). I would like to hear from some of the owners which have had the 21N08 update done and see if their issues have gone away. Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. Your mechanic can hook up a diagnostic tool to your car to determine if this is the issue. I started Fordmasterx as an effort to combine my two passions writing and car ownership into one website. Getting the parts changed out by a poorly trained monkey when not needed is risky in my opinion. If the PCM software is incorrect or outdated, it can cause the engine to shudder or shake. Summary. I have a new to me 2017 SCREW that I purchased about a month ago. . Summary of Related Cam Phaser Rattle Recalls: How Much Does Cam Phaser Replacement Out Of Warranty Cost? The engine shudders 21N08 issue can be caused by a variety of factors, including problems with the PCM software, issues with the transmission, or a lack of proper maintenance. Now they say it needs another round of cam phasers. Im new to my 20, is this a TSB? These guys are simply trying to Band-Aid a crap design. I had the original work done under warranty 54k . Dealer will. It was also discussed that the reprogramming could result in a shudder in the drive train which would require further work. I'm late to the party but my 3.5L EcoBoost is doing this and it's getting worse. Once 21B10 is done, it unlocks two customer satisfaction programs 21N03 and 21N08. If youre a Ford owner, you may be eligible for the Customer Satisfaction Program 21B10. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. The first software update was performed on my 2018 three weeks ago and did not solve the issue. The truck seems to be driving fine, although I did have some cam/crank codes last month and went to dealer where they performed TSB 21-2357 and SSM 48423. They will uninstall and re-install the program using specialized equipment and software. Program 21N08 Pcm Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder. Oftentimes, this engine shudder may be mistaken for a transmission shudder. You are using an out of date browser. If your car is experiencing engine shudder, it may be time for a PCM reprogram. Cam Phaser replacements costs at least $1200, depending on the shop. The Program 21N08 PCM Reprogram is designed to address an engine shudder condition on certain vehicles. I got it too. Mine does this while at low rpms. Some specific causes of the engine shudder 21N08 issue may include-. Please register or login to enable Dark Mode. Mine doesn't die like yours, but definitely a problem there. If you have one of these bikes, you should stop using it immediately and return it to Walmart for a full refund. Privacy Statement - It may not display this or other websites correctly. If your Ford Raptor is experiencing engine shudder, you may need to have the PCM reprogrammed. Mine had only recently started rattling on startup. Likes: 1. Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans . Proper maintenance is essential to keep a cars engine and transmission running smoothly. I noticed mine is doing this as well. Originally, I understood the engine shudder to be a miscommunication between the camshaft position sensor and the PCM. This is because the PCM reprogramming process addresses the root cause of the issue and can help to prevent the issue from recurring in the future. This issue is often caused by a software glitch or by using incompatible software for the specific make and model of the car. How Much Does A Powertrain Control Module Reflash Cost? The recall is for bikes with front wheels that can detach unexpectedly, posing a fall hazard to riders. Generally, Fords are extremely reliable vehicles and are cheap to repair. cam phaser rattles. General discussion on the 13th generation Ford F150 truck. While there may be other potential remedies for the engine shudder 21N08 issue, the PCM . Copyright 2022 by MechanicsPick.com! The Ford F150 sold 663,508 trucks in 2021, beating out Ram and GM. That population essentially consists of vehicles that were poorly maintained or ran low on oil. . If you own a Ford vehicle, theres a good chance that it has been recalled for a PCM reprogramming. This recall affects a variety of models from the 2012-2013 model years, including the Escape, Fusion, Taurus, Flex, Explorer, and F-150. If you own one of these affected vehicles, you should take it to your local dealership as soon as possible to have the ECM reprogrammed. 21N08B 1.2 Hours GEN 2 (2017-2020) Ford F-150 Raptor Forums, Ford F-150 Raptor General Discussions [GEN 2], Need some help ASAP Code P06B6/ Faulty PCM, Ford SVT Raptor General Discussions [GEN 1], Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods, Hmmm? Its usually most noticeable at idle, but can also be felt when accelerating. BUT..I have been reading a lot about the Cam Phasers issue and all of them getting the 21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER update. If your Ford vehicle is experiencing an engine shudder, its important to get it checked out by a professional as soon as possible. Yep I have been told it just means that Ford is extending the warranty in regards to cam phasers to 75k I believe. The PCM reprogramming process can help to prevent the engine shudder 21N08 issue from recurring in the future. Id like to know whats causing this as well. The Ford/GM 10R80 is "defective"? The Ford/GM 10R80 is "defective"? Contact Us - Sep 13, 2021. By updating the software that controls the PCM, the PCM can better control the engine and transmission. Until I get some specifics on what the reprograms do, I'm holding off. Trading start-up clicking for what sounds like a power neuter job and a "shudder" is nuts. This is a free service and should only take about an hour or so to complete. Sometimes you can get a Ford for cheap because it has a cold start rattle. These are named 21N03 which is targeted to the startup rattle and replaces the cam phasers. Sorry my Ford pass just updated and now I have the 21N08 and 21N03. The previous 21B10 customer satisfaction update was designed to send more oil to the cam phasers. The PCM (Powertrain Control Module) is a computer located in a cars engine that controls the cars engine and transmission. Reprogram the PCM using the latest software level of the appropriate Ford . They are past due. This can help to eliminate the engine proceed shudder. In the meantime, its important to be extra careful when driving one of these recalled vehicles. This can be done by a Ford dealership or an authorized service center.
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