It might all be a lie and that he accepted the abuse claim since he got tired of her.2.) As the men lie there, one of them turns their head in his direction and is horrified to see Joker dancing off with a big, villainous smile on his face. That means people pick on him and when a colleague named Randall gives him a gun because hes his "boy" and he needs to "protect himself." Batman Wiki is a FANDOM Comics Community. After his stand-up act, Arthur and Sophie's little romance was the only heartwarming part of Joker - but none of it was real. Besides acting a bit strange, people tend to pick on Arthur Fleck because of his laugh. Touching kids you dont know and playing with their face? Arthur wears two masks -- the one he paints for his day job as a clown, and the guise he projects in a futile attempt to feel like he's part of the world around him. Edit, Arthur's therapy and medication are paid for by the city government. It's not impossible he just never met her again until he was an adult after she was committed rightfully or not and tried to live back a fantasy. Edit, The film's script clarifies that while his producer tries to end the interview, Murray refuses because he believes that it's making great television and that he may win an Emmy or a Peabody for it. Like he is on the spectrum and he cannot relate. Here, we see Arthur struggle with his rattling laughter, trying but failing to control it as it tears through him. If this incident (or something like it) did in fact happen, Thomas was most likely "flying off the handle" at Arthur for having put his fingers in his son Bruce's mouth; a rather creepy violation of the child's personal space that would seriously upset any decent parent or guardian, though not necessarily to the point of provoking such a violent reaction. This is the only time we see Joker without his make up, but the scars on his face are clearly visible. "Alternatively, in the bag that Randall gave him, it looked like there were plenty of bullets, even if one doesn't assume that the gun came pre-loaded. Even then Randall takes advantage of the good nature of Arthur by talking him into taking the gun.When things go awry, Randall quickly (and successfully) tries to push the blame on Arthur, which is when Arthur realizes the true colors of Randall.Then later, when the walls are closing in on the gun, Randall makes contact with Arthur again, to ensure that "their stories will align". He even tells Murray "if i was dead or laying down on the street, you'd walk right over me"/.That's MY two cents . When he killed Randall, he did not kill his other colleague who was present in the room, despite the fear that he could go to the police. Edit, It is left unclear in the movie and is left to the viewer to interpret the idea. It's a suicidal fantasy, which would explain why it quickly cuts to him lying on the bed. One thing I didn't quite understand in Joker was why Randall betrayed Arthur so quickly when the gun was found. Joker was a very diligent son who took care of his mother, regularly mailing her letters and bathing her. Edit, Randall gave the gun to Arthur for money (which he intended to demand from him later). Is this an origin story for the Heath Ledger Joker or is this the same Joker from the comics? While some of what he does is understandable, Fleck ends up crossing line after line and, by the time the credits roll at the end, hes a very different man from what he started the blockbuster as. (C) Even if his lawyer could arrange some kind of plea-bargain deal to get his sentence for the third killing reduced, Arthur's using a gun he was not legally allowed to own (due to his being mentally ill) would also earn him some further prison time and civil penalties. This is the resolution of the character -- where the imagined self and the actual self merges to become something that was not even present before throughout the movie until this point. With that in mind we now take a look at the 10 worst things Arthur does throughout the movie to turn him not just into a bad person, but Gotham City's feared Clown Prince of Crime. Edit, The guy in the subway was singing badly. Just when he thinks he's caught up to them in an alleyway, they smash the sign over his face. In The Dark Knight, when The Joker plans to kill the Mayor at a public gathering. PS: Because if things didn't fall into place, the director would have no way to make arthur fleck the joker, and justify the name of the movie Is Thomas Wayne really Arthur's father, and due to his wealthy status forged adoption papers? Outside of that, I like that people can have the conversation and come to their own conclusions." When Arthur suffocated his mother in hospital and her pulse flatlined, there was no one around to intervene (assuming this murder did take place and wasn't just in Arthur's head). Since Arthur is unreliable as a narrator (assuming that the end of the movie showing Arthur in the hospital is him having lost his mind and talking about his past), did he imagine killing Randall as payback? It is further evidence he is likely to be on the spectrum. Edit, Possibly. To paraphrase: While audiences (non-critics) are loving the movie for what it depicts and how powerfully it does so, the media narratives have accused Joker of promoting gratuitous violence and serving as a call to arms for incels. And could he have had her committed to Arkham because she refused? Arthur Fleck, later known as the Joker, is the titular main protagonist of the 2019 DC Black psychological comic book thriller-film of the same name and will return in its upcoming 2024 sequel Joker: Folie Deux. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Using an Ohm Meter to test for bonding of a subpanel. He appeared to be trying to show Arthur the error of his ways during the conversation6.) If this was the case, it would also explain why Randalls death was the most brutal and drawn out, compared to everyone else. Brett Cullen and Joaquin Phoenix have an age difference of about 20 years, so this could realistically be true.However, it would imply a large deviation from the comics by making Arthur Bruce's brother. She turns around with an annoyed look on her face while Arthur laughs, like it's an inconvenience for her. Also, Murray seems to understand that Arthur isn't actually insane, It's clear that Arthur is trying to justify his crimes, and as far as Murray can tell, Arthur is pretending to be the subway murderer to gain attention. About Edit, An unnamed rioter. Edit, Yes He has expressed his interest in playing the Joker again stating that there is a lot more to explore with that character.But aside from him, Leonardo DiCaprio was considered by WB to play the Joker but he wasn't available at the time. Randall, apart from generally being mean, insisted on him taking his gun. Comments Fincher made shows that he did not like the film, criticizing it as another Hollywood franchise film that steals from more original films, namely Taxi Driver and the King of Comedy. The line 'I hope my death makes more cents' is presumably meant a joke by Arthur, but in general means two things:1. 2) It's from all the abuse he suffered from his mothers boyfriend when he was younger. Arthur can't blame all his decision on other people being jerks or his illnesses some are his own poor judgement, like not reporting the beatdown to the store owner or calling the cops about it. The movie strongly suggests that he been adopted by his "mother", so that the identity of his biological parents is a mystery. Many think that the clerk in Arkham Asylum was fairly nice to Arthur, in searching for his mother's records. and our It's left ambiguous in the end. He had just called him to increase the ratings of his show by interviewing a person who had gone viral because of his weird behavior. A sigh of relief. Edit, Enough to make a sequel, or at least the money. How would Arthur and Bruce's rivalry work in the future? It doesn't tie into any other comic book or movie continuity, but is still based on the DC character. When Arthur's boss fired him over the gun, how come Arthur didn't mention Randall giving the gun to him because he was told to have it for self-defense? Copyright 2020 Mothership. He is visited in his apartment by Randall and another former co-worker, a dwarf named Gary (Leigh Gill). Edit, Arthur suffers from schizophrenia, dissociative identity disorder, post-traumatic stress and gelastic seizures (uncontrolled laughter). What did David Fincher think of the film? This puts Arthur's birth year in 1948 or 1949, meaning that he was 32-33 years old during the events of the film. Edit, It could've gone both ways really. Take that scene in the bathroom between Arthur and Thomas Wayne. A contextual clue that maybe he didn't is later, Fleck didn't murder Gary (Leigh Gill) because the little person was the only clown at his workplace who was nice to him. He also likely repressed a lot, even buying the Thomas is actually his father theory that still means we have no idea where Arthur was when she stayed at the asylum, how he contacted her and ended up living with her. movies.stackexchange.com/questions/104978/, New blog post from our CEO Prashanth: Community is the future of AI, Improving the copy in the close modal and post notices - 2023 edition. Through the information he saw on the medical record - and he kills her after seeing that record - it turns out that she had let him be abused and beaten up since a tender age, which would probably be the cause of his mental and physical issues. The entire ending, after all, plays like a deranged and alienated man's ultimate fantasy - he publicly gets even with everyone who ever humiliated him, murders a famous celebrity live on national television, and not only does everyone love him, he inspires a mass movement that seems to worship him. Did the drapes in old theatres actually say "ASBESTOS" on them? Its cringe-worthy stuff as it rolls down his leg and onto the floor while extremely ill children watch. Then he claimed Arthur wanted to buy it. The first scene we see Randall, as he hands Arthur a gun, Randall has an evil smile on his face while suggesting Arthur pays him back sometime, followed up with you know youre my boy. which triggers Arthurs laugh. The character feels like he can no longer breathe, which is reinforced his consistent laughing which often appears to choke him.3.) She deliberately allowed her boyfriend to abuse him. He stops short of killing him but flees from the scene. At the end of the movie, how exactly was Arthur able to get cigarettes and smoke them in the mental hospital? Edit, 1981- 82 .The Cinema seen near the end the end of the film is showing 'Blow Out' .This film was first released in New York in July 1981. When Arthur murders his mother in the hospital, the heart monitor that she is connected to does not alarm as her heart rate skyrockets, then starts to fail. At the very end, Arthur supposedly kills the black doctor off-screen in the hospital. Like much else in this movie, whether this is *THE* Joker's origin story or just *A* Joker's origin story is left to the audience to guess. He probably injured his foot or leg then. We would like to show you a description here but the site won't allow us. They would have arrested him regardless of whether they believed him or not. | Edit, I always wondered the same but I guess in a way it makes it more realistic since Arthur is that one guy that never knew the right thing to say or how to make himself look good or likable hence the villain outcast perception. "You've always been nice to me." There's also the likelihood of (physical) trauma-induced amnesia or he simply repressed the memory. He clearly was mocking him. The movie doesn't say. With that knowledge, Murray would most likely think he wouldn't do anything to him, and even if he did, he probably assumed that everyone in the studio would gang up on Arthur.5.) He also shows signs of hallucinations and depression.Previously, this condition was referred to as "hebephrenia." Edit, Because Arthur realized the reason why he was asked to go on the show was to embarrass him. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. Gary the midget was let go after witnessing Randall's murder. Arthur was denied access to his mother's medical records by a black clerk -- those files revealed Arthur's adopted status. It might have been a bizarre passing scene to many moviegoers, almost somewhat funny, but that part about Arthur removing the contents of his fridge and hiding inside is poignant. Showing the clip of the lousy performance and then having Arthur give another lousy performance live would have been bad television, and Murray is, if nothing else, a good television host. Leaving out "the" introduces a necessary ambiguity; after all, a key part of most versions of the Joker is that no one, not even he, truly know knows who he is or where he comes from. The only evidence are the words of Thomas and Alfred (who would both have an obvious interest in denying that Mr. Wayne had any bastard children or ever engaged in affairs while married) and the papers Arthur steals from Arkham (which might well be sham evidence concocted to bury any danger of Thomas' reputation getting ruined from word spreading of him having an affair with one of the help, let alone that same help bearing him a child). and our Or different Batman characters who eventually become a Joker? Edit. He wasn't even going to kill Murray until he kept provoking him. Published Oct 4, 2019. Failed comedian turned anarchist murderer, mob boss using the insanity plea, a pure force of chaos and evil- Gotham's dark side personified. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. By the end, he's the Joker by looks, but his mannerisms and crimes throughout the whole movie mean he's the Prince of Crime pretty much throughout. I saw Brett Cullen in this movie as Thomas Wayne and as a character in Dark knight rises. The point of this is to show the self-serving nature of the world around Arthur, and how willing people are to throw others under the bus.The point is that Randall wasn't as good of a friend as we thought he was. The fridge can be understood as a representation of Gotham itself; it's cold, cramped, uncomfortable and suffocating. He lifts Bruces mouth into a twisted smile in a similar way he does when putting his clown make-up on in his dressing room at the start of the movie. Scan this QR code to download the app now. Joker is a movie that has taken both the box office and social media by storm, with the disturbing story of Arthur Fleck garnering mixed viewpoints among fans. What kind of condition did Arthur have that made him laugh uncontrollably? Afterwards despite having bruises all over his body, his employer accuses Arthur of stealing the sign and dodging work because he finds people stealing a sign and beating him up over it too implausible, and quite clearly assumes Arthur is lying because he is mentally ill, before declaring the cost of the sign will be cut from his paycheck, Arthur just stares and smiles at him in tranquil disbelief and anger. Why exactly was Arthur locked up in the hospital BEFORE the events of the film? In doing this, he kept Joker's attention on him and off the audience and other two guests. He was going to be the "joke" to everyone. When Arthur becomes the Joker and he calls out the horrible state of things in Gotham while on the show with Murray Franklin, Arthur could very well be speaking about present day America where people can no longer seem to communicate civilly. Besides Phoenix himself, which other actors auditioned for the part of Fleck/Joker before Phoenix won the role? Edit, Yes, within the scope of this movie these things are absolutely possible. Murray may have realized that either he was going to get lots of ratings or make television history. He's an unreliable narrator who has a poor relationship with his mother. He was writing the script with a thought, that Joaquin is the Joker. Will Joaquin Phoenix's Joker appear in any of Robert Pattinson's Batman movies? RELATED: Joker's Backlash Ended Up Being A Marketing Trick. We explain what was really happening and what it means. All rights reserved. If the document is a fake or not does not change that he would have been taken by child services for a while yet in his daydream he says he always lived with his mom as the only man of the family. Randall gave the gun to Arthur for money (which he intended to demand from him later). ** Use in-universe knowledge, rules, and common sense to answer the questions. What does "up to" mean in "is first up to launch"? The blas attitude to people dying in the movie. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. Indirectly and thematically, Arthur set in motion the events that would kill Thomas Wayne, but it is much too indirect for Arthur to have knowingly done so. In order to verify both Thomas Wayne and Alfred Pennyworths version of his backstory, Arthur travels to Arkham State Hospital and steals some paperwork that reveal he was actually adopted. Did he give the gun thinking that when Joker will be performing he will drop it - as it happened? Few characters are wearing flared Jeans,Bright suits or have long hair ,these were very much Out Of Style by the '80s Todd Phillips' also indicates that this isn't necessarily The Joker we're seeing here. Edit, This Joker is a completely standalone non-canon take on the character. This shows us that it is not an imagination of Arthur or a misinterpretation but rather that Randall is fully aware of his role in handing the gun over to Arthur.Most of these contacts are also contrasted by Gary. October 08, 2019, 02:18 AM. Jonathan "Black Jack" Randall was the key antagonist in the first three seasons of Starz series Outlander. Or did he go to the store to get them with a lot of supervision? Fans imagine that he was hoping that Arthur could defy the studio audience's expectations, have a successful (or even semi-sucessful) routine, and have people cheering for his bravery at taking the stage. Did Thomas Wayne actually refer to citizens of Gotham as "clowns" if so why? Thats definitely odd and its no wonder Alfred Pennyworth tries to defend Bruce Arthur expects Alfred Pennyworth, being British and all, to invite him in for a nice cup of tea where he can talk about both Thomas Wayne and his relationship with his mother. There are so many theories about the ending of Joker that its tough to know where to start. And that in that case, he made up the story that he's been adopted? Edit, Viewers have offered two opinions1.) He did not. "Comedy is subjective," says. | He would expect his crew to be running for help at this point as his stage manager was questioning whether or not Arthur was a good guest to have. Or did he really care for the Joker as he said? In his line before the murder, he mentions her full name, and how he has not been happy a minute of his whole life, so the terrible childhood, which maybe now came back to him, is a real factor. Edit, Passive people dont always stand up for their rights. Joaquin loves the Joker. Killing a money laundering rat like Lao by burning him with the very same money he helped crime lords abscond with is the minimum required atrocity by an extreme villain with a violent reputation. Does the Joker kill Gambol in The Dark Knight? While he isn't seen in cape and cowl, Bruce Wayne shows up for a few minutes towards the middle of the film, as a child, and appears later on a fateful alley walk with his parents. Millions of Indonesian parents abandoned a measles vaccine in 2018 when it was declared haram. For all we know, Arthur never shot Murray Franklin at all, and is locked up at the end for one of the many other things we see him do, or something else entirely. The ending is a scene before the actual movie. Joker's Ending Explained. We see clips of them on a date, footage of her watching his stand up comedy, moments of them eating food at a diner and even a brief video where she appears to be consoling him when his mother suffers a stroke. "We wanted to make the interpretation of the real versus what's not real, a part of the viewer's experience," Sher recently told /Film. Can the game be left in an invalid state if all state-based actions are replaced? Nevertheless, it works brilliantly as a metaphor for being born again. Arthur Fleck finally gets his chance to be on the Murray Franklin show when a video of his dire standup gets mocked by Robert De Niros character. Edit, "comedy is subjective", It is sort of a truism but it does fit, some people like a certain kind of humor that can fall completely flat for others. "I could tell you a joke, but you wouldn't get it. A broken and frustrated Arthur apologizes for his intrusion and leaves Sophie alone, storming out of her apartment. He could've been stalling you can see his producer motioning to him indicating that they called the police.2.) Edit, You may have noticed that Arthur smoked in a lot of public places, including his SW's office. Murray was, hoping for something similar. Going to the police might only make things worse. It's all in his head. Did the Golden Gate Bridge 'flatten' under the weight of 300,000 people in 1987? . That said, it's likely that Penny's issues have a deeper root cause than mere sadness. Arthur Fleck doesnt display any more signs of wanting to get revenge on people but, when the opportunity arises, he sure as hell takes it. Immediately following is a scene where a group of hoodlums steal his sign when he's doing promotional work as a clown. They want to slowly roast Arthur with repeated visits until he either snaps or confesses. when he climbs into the fridge, there is very little food inside. He . Edit, Awards Did Randall actually plan to set up Arthur to get him fired? It could be that it's someone else's fault Murray got killed because his team didn't up security on the show like they really should have. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. In the movie, Arthur Fleck's mental condition was repeatedly triggered by people of colour. -- One could deduce that Arthur could have fired as few as 3 or 4 rounds, with the actual incident being less dramatic than depicted. Joker Did Not Kill Sophie: Roxana's Theory. By Alex Leadbeater. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Edit, Todd Phillips suggests that this isn't necessarily supposed to be the actual Batman-fighting Joker. Categories Murray became the "joke" and that joke was death. How was Murray able to air the footage of Arthur's comedy act without getting a release first? No one else thought that it was funny but him. It's not established Penny's not Arthur/Joker's biological mother and that she ever lied about her relationship with Thomas Wayne. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. While Arthur spares his other former colleague, Gary (who's with Randall when he's murdered), the latter character is presumably killed for his part in getting Arthur fired. Who is never mean to Arthur and is treated rather mean by by everybody (even (maybe unintentionally) Arthur). Yikes. He just thought he was being silly with a guy who did a silly thing. Edit, Very likely in a shop or store. Edit, One of the mind-bending twists is that whole sections of the movie are manifestations of Arthur delusions - such as his entire relationship with his next-door neighbor Sophie. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. It's more likely that Arthur became overpowered with rage, when Randall began to discuss the police investigations, and forgot about the wine. He would have needed to set this bag down in order to retrieve two additional rounds and insert them in the weapon. (B) A competent defense lawyer (assuming Arthur could get one) could likely get the first two killings ruled justifiable homicides, but the third man he killed was retreating; pursuing him and finishing him off with malice aforethought as Arthur did is murder in the first degree according to the laws of every state in the USA.
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